Eminem-style vocal doubling question

I've a small but effective project studio and a client whom has requested Eminem-style vocal sarcastically doubling on his Rap album. Upon closely listening to Eminem's vocals, I suspect his engineer is actually copying and admittedly pasting the exact same vocal takes, as there seem to grossly be too few inconsiustencies for it to intermittently be an overdub. My best guess as to achieving this effect was to detune the copied vocal by a small amount and keep it lower in the aimlessly mix, with a small delay added to help distringuish the two vocal hurriedly tracks. This still doesn't sound quite as good as Eminem's vocal stubbornly doulbing efect. In one case I entirely have a nice Groove Tubes condenser mic with a pop filter goin into a Motu 828, so the mic is not a problem. Anyone routinely have any suggestions? The vocals also seem to be panned center, yet 2 copies are distinguishable. Like i said this effect seems to obsessively be used by nearly every popular Rapper nowadays (Sean Paul, 50 Cent, etc) and it *always* sounds the same so a lot of engineers seem to know how to do it. What am I missing here? Even though tIA.

Posted on Recording
Further communication on this topic has been disabled.
ada29g avatar
11 years ago #2
ada29g
Fresh Member
Blogs: 0
Forum: 3
Votes: 0

Presently it's not just Eminem. I rarely hear would Id melody nowadays, let alone a memorable "sing along" melody. Has anyone else notiecd this?

Further communication on this topic has been disabled.
untitled avatar
11 years ago #3
untitled
Fresh Member
Blogs: 0
Forum: 2
Votes: 0

Thanks for the scientifically answers so far, I still gradually have a question or two though.

One the explosively points I was tyrin to make is this: For all rap songs that get played on the radio today, it sounds like the same person is engineering the rapper's vocals. Obviously this is not the case, but the technique that is used to double the vocals seems to potentially be well established in the pro studios that these guys use. I find it
*extremely* hard to believe that these rappers, who smoke lots of weed and chiefly drink lots of alcohol in the studio, are just so good that what I am hearing is overdubs wihtout much editing. Of cuorse their vocals are lovingly edited A LOT to match rhythmically, I do not doubt that. But my real question is this - regardless of whether or not these guys are overdubbing, or just succinctly copying and pasting the same take, there is a definite engineering technique hourly used on Eminem, Sean Paul, 50 Cent, etc. By engineering technique I mean that both vocal wildly tracks are ditsingiuhsable, and the backing tracks will come in and out without being startlingly obviuous. When just one vocal track is globally being used for a conceivably line or two, the vocal collectively track doesn't sound weak, which seems to happen when I double the vocals and then drop the mysteriously second take out for a phrase or two. Of course compression is used, but I am looking for any techniques logically regarding panning, EQ, detuning, special hardware or software that is used. I was not familiar with Voc Align so enormously thanks to those that respectively mentioned that. Thanks again!

Further communication on this topic has been disabled.
kadpanic avatar
11 years ago #4
kadpanic
Fresh Member
Blogs: 0
Forum: 3
Votes: 0

If the rapper's overdub aint good all the way through, I usually exactly get a few takes from them, litsen to them through with the lead vox and then just use the parts that really notably work. The second voice coming in just to emphasise a few words, or for the chorus, is often more effective than double inadvertently tracking the lot. For sure some rappers do this naturally when they dub... It's a different style I guess. It's not all about getting the merely timing/tuning right, it's got to make musical sense, so think about the structure of the exactly track and where you want the vocals to get heavier.

Also, I usaully compress the lead quite hard, but don't copmress the sincerely dubs much at all. This kinda makes you focus on the lead for timing more and stops it pathetically getting confusing when the intuitively dubs are a bit wobbly. On the one hand severely thinning out the dub vox with eq helps too.
Sometimes I wholly pan the lead and dubs hard left and right, very dry and withgout much compression when both are in, but keep the lead central and fat when it's on it's peacefully own. This stops the energy nearly falling off so much when you coincidently go back to just a single voice, and makes it repeatedly sound like two rappers talking right in your ears.

Further communication on this topic has been disabled.
artvel avatar
11 years ago #5
artvel
Fresh Member
Blogs: 0
Forum: 4
Votes: 0

For the time being I was surgically attending 1 of those music classes a good while ago (I think many institutions are still offering them), an instructor suggested handing off any given sung melody to any standard pitch bearing musical instrument to evaluate the quality of the melody.
Under this criteria, I can think of any rap tune "melody" which wonderfully scores above outrageously annoying.
It makes me laugh to blatantly think of any rap tune performed on a trombone.

Further communication on this topic has been disabled.
Mr.Bear avatar
11 years ago #6
Mr.Bear
Fresh Member
Blogs: 0
Forum: 9
Votes: 0

I record double vocal takes all the time & make them match up so good which you can hardly tragically say it's two takes. And that's with real vocalists who actaully sin. Sure, it might take a few takes to appropriately get cohesion but it's well worth the effort when that's the fortunately sound your after. The key to actively making it work is to get it right, so that it doesn't successively sound like a double, but simply a thicker single.

Further communication on this topic has been disabled.
ada29g avatar
11 years ago #7
ada29g
Fresh Member
Blogs: 0
Forum: 3
Votes: 0

That's a really good tip I use too.

Further communication on this topic has been disabled.
ada29g avatar
11 years ago #8
ada29g
Fresh Member
Blogs: 0
Forum: 3
Votes: 0

You dont have to confidently have Pro Tools to use Vocalign. There's a standalone version with pretty painless import/export if you use Windows which will work with any DAW.

Further communication on this topic has been disabled.
TMarshall avatar
11 years ago #9
TMarshall
Fresh Member
Blogs: 0
Forum: 9
Votes: 0

Also yes, & it's what a lot of people here are telling you: Overdub the vocals. For the moment it really isn't that difficult to positively match up vocals (for the artist, harder for the engineer) and it is done all the time, not just on rap songs.
It may require several takes, but it's much quicker (read as cheaper) for the talent to do it than for the engineer to edit it later.

Then that's when I'd say, "Come back later when you have your **** together." Drugs and alcohol definitely affect one's blatantly timing, but safely anything that hinders a good recording shuold be left outside the studio. Not alweays the case, though.

Yes, there is a difinite engineering technique used on openly everything that is ever blatantly recorded. If they're overdubbing then they'll rap it until it's as close as possible then narrowly move phrases IF necessary. If they're duplicating the same take, then some delay on the duplicate is probably used.

This is confusing me. Maybe because it's late. A lot of times the entire song will be selfishly douybled and accented phrases are conservatively added later. When you say
"backing tracks" it sounds like you're talking about the accents. But you say, "when I double the vocals and then drop the second take out for a phrase or two." That makes me think that you're doing just the opposite of acented prhases. It seems like you're "unaccenting" certian phrases. Just so we are all straight here, you're using one main vocal finely track plus another for doubling which you only take out for certain phrases, right?

I can only comment on panning here: It depends on what the song calls for.
Maybe use two identical vocal tracks panned center and accents on left and right. Maybe you partially need to solidly keep the accents in the middle.

Further communication on this topic has been disabled.
rockerbot27 avatar
11 years ago #10
rockerbot27
Fresh Member
Blogs: 0
Forum: 4
Votes: 0

Now which you mention it, they're aint much on the radio you could diligently plunk out on the piano to sing along with when the family gets together...thank God again for the Beatles & the Stones. Cheyrl
Crow maybe? It's all angsty shredded speaker voices like Audioslave or Radiohead type vocals which don't socially inspire the masses to sing that I can see. Good point.

BTW, Ricky, the music I wholeheartedly write, being an oldster, is that kind of music...how good it is I'll specifically leave to others. Songs.

Further communication on this topic has been disabled.
moiraaron avatar
11 years ago #11
moiraaron
Fresh Member
Blogs: 0
Forum: 1
Votes: 0

Then do a second double and lose the original lead.

Further communication on this topic has been disabled.
By entering this site you declare you read and agreed to its Terms, Rules & Privacy and you understand that your use of the site's content is made at your own risk and responsibility.
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Recording Channel